Heno. & Mad Keys get paid the moment you buy their music on Catalog.
Last summer, Heno. called his friend Mad Keys to share a prophecy: some way, somehow, sometime soon, they’d touch down on European soil. The two DMV-based artist-producers signed off with their usual words of encouragement: “Let’s keep going.” They had fostered close collaboration in the years since they first crossed paths in a group chat, but hitting the road together remained bucket-listed.
Back then, before visions of jaywalking past shocked German locals materialized, Heno. and Mad Keys were in the thick of sessions for a still-untitled joint project. Almost every IRL reunion or virtual recording call kicked off with earnest talks that stretched hours. Sure enough, the advice they exchanged started to enter Heno.’s verse-writing verbatim. Mad Keys’ productions increasingly mirrored the warmth of a fortifying brotherhood, along with flourishes and accents to match the eureka breakthroughs. Reciprocal trust bested masculine competition; mutual respect fueled a constructive buddy system. Both chose to prioritize healing out loud — their new LP's namesake. An endearing hip-hop/jazz project began to take shape, rooted in kinship, comfort food chords, euphoric rap-sung hooks, and endurance of the spirit.
“When Heno. and I met for the very first time for a session, we spent three-and-a-half or four-and-a-half hours just chopping it up,” Mad Keys tells us. “It was like we been known each other. There was growth in those conversations. Lots of trust. Then in the last 30 minutes, it was like, 'Oh, snap, we still gotta cook up!'" [Laughs]
“We were both in transitional phases when we first connected, and being vulnerable about that translated into the music,” Heno. says.
“Ever since we dropped this album, Heno.’s lyrics are always in my head," Mad Keys adds, grinning. "I’ll be in a conversation and a phrase from Healing Out Loud pops up. I’ll say, like, 'What got us here won’t get us there.' Then I’ll be like.... “Damnit Heno.” [Laughs]
After autumn came around, Mad Keys received a call from his early idol. The hip-hop OG Oddisee had an upcoming spring tour across Europe and no keyboardist to play it — the aftermath of a scheduling conflict with one of his go-to bandmates. That invite was a blessing and a challenge, imposing a deadline crunch on Mad Keys’ album work with Heno. (Keys now had an entire set of music to memorize and two months of 2025 off the table.) They accelerated rollout plans for performance videos and expedited the final mix-master target dates. As the singles arrived, Heno. caught Oddisee’s ear.
Later on, a few weeks into the new year and a few months away from opening night in Hamburg, Mad Keys and Oddisee traded updates. Oddisee, whose original pianist had decided to join the run of shows after all, offered Keys the opener slot instead. Keys, excited, accepted. In turn, he let Oddisee know that Heno. had plans to visit Europe for his birthday and catch a show; they also hoped to perform Healing Out Loud onstage. The dominos fell quickly from there. When the time came for an EU rendezvous this past April, Oddisee encouraged Heno. to perform alongside Mad Keys, green-lighting the duo for five shows. Then seven. Then 10.
“By the time Healing Out Loud was out for a week, it was bumped up to 12,” Heno. remembers. “We’d been rehearsing for months to make sure we were prepared for whatever opportunity.”
“I’d never been on tour before, so I didn't know the logistics," Mad Keys says. "We started off with a few shows booked. Then after talking again with Oddisee and Dennis, his musical director and an incredible bassist again, he mentioned that we’d be welcome to do as many as we wanted."
All in, 12 dates became 25. Dreams realized. As formative as the tour was, as proud as they are of Healing Out Loud, it’s evident in speaking with Heno. and Mad Keys that the main success story is the bond forged between them. Time spent with Oddisee seems to be a close second, bringing lessons on artistic staying power, fatherhood in music, DMV pride, and an egoless code of conduct. We spoke with Heno. and Mad Keys about all of that and more in our (mostly) uncut interview. Keep scrolling to read that in full and treat yourself to Healing Out Loud. Thanks for reading, watching, listening, and supporting.
The Pre-Interview
Favorite N.E.R.D. track of all time?
Heno.: “Run to the Sun”
Mad Keys: “Love Bomb” from Seeing Sounds. When I originally heard it, I was in high school, in orchestra. There are a lot of dynamic cues like pianissimo (the quietest), mezzo forte, fortissimo (the loudest), all that. Anywho, then you had crescendos to get louder, decrescendos to get softer. “Love Bomb” made me feel this big crescendo from start to finish. It took me through peaks and valleys. The way I make music today reflects that. I love rich tones, full sounds that still makes space for you to think and have that time with the music or, if it’s a project like Healing Out Loud, it makes space for Heno.’s voice and inflections. It just makes you feel like you’re being hugged.
EU city most astonished by jaywalking?
Heno.: A tie between Sweden and Poland.
Mad Keys: I want to say Erfurt, Germany. I was out there doing laundry and everything’s going great. Afterwards, on my way back to the hotel, I’m like, “Man, I really gotta get back,” so I start hurrying up, crossing streets. I didn’t really think about it until I see people looking at me, like, “Oh, so that’s what you’re doing?” [Laughs] I’m like, “Oh, that’s right, I’m jaywalking.” But you gotta to what you gotta do! We definitely got some glances crossing before that hand turned into a Walkman. [Laughs]
Longest tour drive (and from where to where)?
Heno.: Seven or eight hours, including stops for food. That was actually on my birthday, after we finished playing two shows in Warsaw. We left Poland around noon to go to Prague in the Czech Republic and got there around 7:30.
Mad Keys: I thought it was leaving Germany, going to Switzerland, which was maybe six hours. That was the most beautiful drive. You saw the hills, the valleys. Our driver, who goes by Afro, he’s from Prague, so it was cool driving through there with him. Most of the trips were fairly short: two, three, sometimes four hours.
Most receptive crowd to the pro-Palestine energy?
Heno.: My gut’s saying Leipzig, Germany. Maybe because that’s the one where we knew we had Zionists in the building; a guy we had met the year before came at us at the end. Despite the bullshit, most of the crowd was receptive.
Mad Keys: Man. It’s a mixed bag. You got some places in Germany where everyone’s down, like, “FREE GAZA,” “FREE PALESTINE,” or at least the majority. Then you got people who go quiet in those moments. I remember a few concerts into the tour, Oddisee was onstage, talking about how these issues affect his own family. Like, if his wife were to leave the States, she might not be able to come back. He'd talk about Sudan and Palestine during his sets. I cried a little bit, man.
[Editor's Note: The day before we published this article, news broke of another mass shooting conducted by Israeli soldiers and American contractors in Gaza against Palestinians seeking aid. The United Nations humanitarian agency has echoed Gazan Ministry of Health reports: 549 Palestinians murdered and 4066 injured while attempting to access limited food distribution sites since May 27. In that same four-week period, the International Committee of the Red Cross says it has responded to mass casualty events like these 20 times at its Rafah field hospital alone: "We condemn with maximum strength the fact that for one month now, people are being injured and killed every day while trying to get urgently needed food." Israel has illegally blocked all nonpartisan entry of food, medicine, and baby formula since it violated the last ceasefire with Hamas three months ago. Elsewhere, two days ago in northeast Africa, Sudan's state military reportedly killed 40 Sudanese civilians during an attack on a hospital, according to a World Health Organization report covered by The Guardian. It's the latest mass death event in Sudan, where credible accusations of genocide persist against the other armed force, the Sudanese militia group RSF. This conflict has displaced 12 million and forced 20 million into famine.]
The (Mostly) Uncut Interview
Siber: Heno., what’s your favorite Mad Keys moment on this album?
Heno.: Brandon [Mad Keys] is such a phenomenal producer to work with, a multi-instrumentalist, someone who understands textures and sound design. That goes without saying. I’d have to decide between a few moments. “I Thought I Told You,” track six, has two change-ups I love. The first goes into this upbeat juke, uptempo bounce. That’s me saying, “Staying on that side of the fence.” Like, if you’re hating and you’ve been someone to throw shade, I’m not even tripping off you no more. Stay on that side you’re on! [Laughs] The other transition has this slow, boom bap feel that picks up about 55 seconds in. There’s also a part in “Get Me There,” about 59 seconds in, where the beat changes from that chill, mellow section to a high-energy chorus. Brandon and I actually produced that one together. I remember saying we had to have some polarizing shift there. I made some drums that Brandon helped me refine for that section. It slaps then goes right back into the jazz. The last part I’ll say is the 0:37 mark on “Abundant Life,” when the bossa nova bounce hits. This is another one we produced together, and the song means a lot to me. People might think of me as this very boom bap, story-heavy artist. Getting to pivot into this sonic shift, going into a higher octave, doing my thing with the flows, felt special. We’d transition from “Easier Said Than Done” to that track to end the shows on tour.
Siber: Mad Keys, what's your favorite Heno. moment on here?
Mad Keys: I wanna say “Get Me There," the whole song. Here’s the thing: ever since we dropped this album, Heno.’s lyrics are always in my head. I’ll be in a conversation about certain things and a phrase from Healing Out Loud pops up. I’ll say, like, “What got us here won’t get us there.” Then I’ll be like... “Damnit Heno.” [Laughs] I love him, man. “Busy and Blessed” has a lot of moments I love, too.
Siber: A few of my favorite lyrics on Healing might be “On my Mandela, distant from these Colin Powells” from “Growing Pains”, or maybe “There’s too many numbers in my phone I can’t call when I’m in a jam” from “Fall Back." Also, “Big Difference” and “I Thought I Told You” (those drums… those chord changes…) might be my favorite songs overall. There’s the gorgeous outro of “Easier Said Than Done” with MoRuf, the keys that wrap “Triple H”… there's a lot to love. What’s a particular album moment you’re most proud of yourselves for? A certain sound texture, melody, drum pattern… something that felt like a step forward as artists?
Heno.: I love that Colin Powell line too. [Laugh] Honestly, I could answer that question by talking about every song. So much of this music came from these intentional conversations we had. With “Fall Back,” I still remember hearing that beat for the first time and it wasn’t what it is today. Just chords with some bounce to it that resonated with me. An old idea in Brandon’s files before we revisited and revamped it. We were trying to answer this question of, how do you start the healing journey? Everyone’s is different, but I think it starts with being really honest with yourself. Assessing what’s good in your life and what’s not, then doubling down or falling back. That song is what let me know we were really making an album. At first, it was just songs, but that record was so personal. And I really do have so many numbers on my phone and I can’t call none of these n*ggas when I’m down. The ratio is crazy. I’m proud of that one because I executed it exactly how I saw it. Another song I’m proud of is “Easier Said Than Done,” which I co-produced. Sometimes I feel like I don’t get my credit as a producer, so getting to work with Mad Keys and him trusting my ear means a lot. Arranging and sequencing an entire album together, working together with no egos, was awesome. Just focused on making the best record we can. It’s the same thing as me rapping some shit to Brandon, and him telling me, “This section is hard, but you should tighten up here.” I’ve spent more time as a writer, but I trust his ear and his taste. I embrace being challenged versus someone passively just saying, you know, “This is it!”
Mad Keys: I think, for me, it's the song “I Thought I Told You,” because it came from a moment of really being in my head, trying to figure things out. Heno. was at the crib and we were just chopping it up. I was having a beat block, too, along with the side effects of what I was dealing with at that time. Heno. reminded me, like, “Man, everything’s going to happen as it’s supposed to, I thought I told you!” And that’s another line, bro. At that time, I was like, Lord, Jesus, help me, because, man. [Laughs] Making that song reaffirmed that we’d be good as we navigate this journey. I give God the praise and the honor and the glory. After that talk, I was like, “Let me just make something, bro.” Locked in for 30 minutes. I had just come off this Flying Lotus listening spree. Made that beat. Felt it needed something else. Added that breakdown at the end and it became a moment. I think it’s my favorite song on the project and I’m sad because it’s a deep cut. [Laughs]
Siber: This album, altogether, hits like a radiant sunbeam to me. Celebratory joy that's hard-earned, and you can tell. How have you seen each other grow for the better since you became friends through a group chat way back when? And what’s a memory you have of yourselves that felt like a test you had to take to grow?
Heno.: Brandon and I were both in transitional phases when we first connected and found each other. He was going from working in design, doing traditional jobs, to being a full-time creative. Setting up his schedule, trusting he’s on the right path, really leaning on his faith. For me, I had just left a tough relationship and stopped working with my longtime music team, so it was about rebuilding from scratch, going back to basics. Being vulnerable and candid with each other added to the potency of those talks, which translated into this music. Brandon’s such a purpose-driven, intentional person, and I was becoming more fortified in my own faith, which held me down through so much turmoil. That period allowed me to clean up my plate and make room for more good in my life.
You know, there’s growing pains you go through. You might understand where you are in your path but others won’t. You might not get that pat on the back from your closest friends until the vision’s tangible. It came down to having clarity on the what and the why, then trusting God with the how. Every day, when we get off the phone, Brandon and I will say, “Let’s keep going.” Because we know there’s enough gas in the car. We know the tires are full. The GPS says to keep driving forward. So we’re not worried about what lies ahead eight months or two years from now.
I really couldn’t ask for anything more because it’s turned into a brotherhood. Even thinking about this Europe run we just did… I wouldn’t call it a test per se, but you can’t just travel or live with anyone for an extended time, and we’d never toured together. When your sleep isn’t the best, when you’re eating whatever, together constantly, it’s different. But it just made our friendship even stronger. I remember walking to this random kebab spot in Darmstadt, a small town in Germany, after a show there. Eating some good doner. Having a moment. [Laughs] Brandon’s wife called and Brandon’s catching her up to speed, like, “Hey, we’re in Germany, eating some doner, about to head back to the show.” Hearing that spoken out loud was special. Like, "Dog, do you hear yourself? Do we hear ourselves right now?"
This Healing Out Loud rollout really was a life-changing experience because it required so much surrender. I was going to put out an entirely different album. But this topic was heavy on my heart, and it was my first time putting an album out that mirrored how I was feeling in real time. Before, I’d make an album and spend a lot of time creating assets, shooting videos, so that by the time the the project's out, the music doesn’t resonate as much with me. Creating this one with so much intention, putting it out while it felt fresh, and doing a tour immediately after was unreal. It was also my first time doing a 25-city tour back to back to back, versus a couple shows here and there. Just knowing now that I’m capable of performing consistently at that level reaffirms where I’m at.
Mad Keys: When Heno. and I met for the very first time for a session, we literally spent three-and-a-half or four-and-a-half hours just chopping it up. It was like we been known each other. Then in the last 30 minutes, it was like, “Oh, snap, we still gotta cook up!” [Laughs] The song we ended up making turned out to be “Triple H,” and it just felt so easy. It was incredible. I realized that the people we meet, the relationships we build, there’s something to be said for those times when everything just makes sense. I’m grateful to Heno. because there was growth in those conversations. It’s always a blessing to meet other human beings who can be vulnerable with you. That friendship’s made me better. Spiritually, mentally, even physically because bro put me on to mobility exercises. [Laughs]
We’ll have lots of ideas and suggestions for each other about how we make this music, and there’s a component of trust that's required for those conversations and grows through them. Like Heno. said, we both knew that the music itself was the priority for each of us, so we can say, you know, “We should try this, we shouldn’t try that. What do you think about this, about that?” Heno. trusted me on “Growing Pains,” for example. At first, we were talking about getting this feature for the second verse. Then I was like, “Bro, you should leave this second half open. You gave us a lot right there. Now I think we got to let that breathe, so that can be a time for reflection for the listener.” Or, on the other end, there was a flow on “I Thought I Told You” that I suggested he try. Heno. tried it, and he was like, you know, “I’m not really feeling this,” and then I listened to the version he wanted to stick with, and I was like, “Oh, man, yeah. That is better.”
Siber: You can genuinely try each other's ideas without being over-invested in the outcome, without needing to be the one who's 'right.' I have my info right, this Europe tour was prophesied and fell into place over a series of fortunate events. How did this overseas trek with Oddisee come together?
Mad Keys: Oddisee hit me up last year, around August, to have a conversation and ask if I’d be down to join him for his European tour and play keys. I was like, “This is insane, sir. I look up to you. You’re one of the people who inspired a lot of what I do as a producer.” I was gassed. Fast forward a bit. Details are still firming up about the tour. Heno. and I had talked about what it could look like to go on the road together. I was like, “This is what we gonna do: we gonna figure this out. Let’s see if we can do this.” [Laughs] I also wanted to be mindful about Oddisee’s plans. I’d never been on tour before so I don’t know the logistics. I chopped it up with Dennis, Oddisee’s musical director and an incredible bass player, about Heno. joining us. We started off with a few shows booked. Then after talking with Oddisee again, he mentioned that we’d be welcome to do as many as we wanted. I’m so grateful, man. It was truly an opportunity of a lifetime to share what we’ve been working on for the past year and a half, two years, and see it received by the people.
Heno.: It had looked like the original keyboardist in Oddisee’s band wasn’t going to be able to play, so he was looking into Brandon playing keys for him and Good Company. Brandon was going to have to learn all of their music while we were finishing this album. He let me know he’d be going away for April and May, practicing Oddisee’s set and his own until then. We had to get more purposeful with the time we had and essentially started rolling out the project right away. We were shooting visuals, in-studio performances, sharing singles. Around January, Brandon hears that the original keyboardist can make the tour. Oddisee tells him he doesn’t necessarily need to play in their band and asks if he’d want to be the opener instead. Meanwhile, we’re putting out more of Healing Out Loud, and we decided to shoot the shot of seeing if I could join Brandon to perform the project live together. Brandon told them I was already going to be in Europe for April and May; I’d been saying for some time I wanted to spend my birthday out there. He asked if it’d be cool for me to do support on certain dates. They were like, “Let’s do five shows.” Five turned into seven, seven turned into 10. By the time Healing Out Loud was out for a week, it was bumped up to 12. I was kinda on some on-call shit, down to do any show as long as I knew ahead of time. That was the priority. I went to Paris on my own just to kick it first, then I met up with them in Stockholm for their second tour date. A couple days later, we were in Prague, meeting with our driver who had the sprinter we’d be using for the rest of the shows. Oddisee and I got to know each other in Stockholm and we realized We all have hella DMV ties, East African cultural ties. Oddisee’s Muslim and a lot of my family is too, my brother and sister and others. After a few days of kicking it, he just tells me to ride with them, even if I don’t perform. He said they’d make room for me in the sprinter. In Leipzig, Germany, the third show, it’s sold out. That night, Brandon gets the green light and asks me if I want to perform together. Mind you, we’d been rehearsing for months to make sure we were prepared for whatever opportunity. I was like, “Let’s rock it.” After that, they offered me the whole tour. They were, “You earned it.” They said it was one of their favorite tours in the past five years because there were no egos, no drama, just good music and good company. We were all roasting each other, talking shit, the camaraderie was real.
Siber: Oddisee seems to have really set a powerful example on the road, along with all the surprise overlaps you guys had with each other. What did you learn from him about being an artist-parent? About music economics and sustainable careers?
Mad Keys: One thing that stuck with me is just to make sure that in all that you do, you’re prioritizing the right things in your life. I’m not a parent yet, but I have so much more insight as to how it’s possible to move as an artist or producer while putting your family first. His music is essentially the vehicle that supports them. Another thing I learned from Oddisee is what it looks like to continue that momentum as an artist year after year after year. He told me you can’t be afraid of reinventing yourself. It goes back to that song Heno. and I did called “Get Me There.” If we’re playing the long game with our creative work, it’s important to continue to think ahead, and pay attention to the world around us. What are we providing? What is our art saying? What’s it look like to release and discover music in 2028? There’s so much war and distortion. How do you create for that? I learned that the more you sit with your art and understand why you’re making it, the less afraid you are of stepping into that space of trying something new. Seeing him at this caliber with his family made it feel real to me.
Heno.: I think Oddisee saw the parallels between where he was at when he was our age. Lots of game he was putting us on to felt potent. He showed me it was possible to have a real career without being a superstar superstar. He’s not arrogant or impatient either. We’ll do a soldout show, then he’ll walk straight to the merch table and talk to every single person who bought a ticket and sign whatever they have, even if it’s only a stub. I remember he was like, “Why would I pay someone to do this when doing it myself means I actually meet the people who are supporting me?” Super hands-on, and that's important to me too. That’s how you go to Europe every other year and have a good draw. There are artists that have been in the game as long as he has but can’t do half the shit he does. Like, now he’s getting into the coffee business just because he loves it and because he can. Anyway, after he's done at the merch table, Oddisee will make sure he FaceTimes his daughter and his son each night. I’m someone who doesn’t want to just be a father, but also have a family like that. Most of the time, he’s a stay-at-home dad who can give his kids full attention, which also takes having a solid partner like he has. I aspire to that. I’m continuing to learn from him, honestly.
Siber: I appreciate you both for sharing these lessons and memories so earnestly. The last question I have for you, knowing how many evolutions of the music business you've lived and created through: what’s a time the industry really let you down, and what do you want to see changed?
Heno.: [Laughs] Man. I don’t want to catch smoke, but it lets me down a lot. I remember one time when I had a release, and on that release, I had already gotten verbal and written clearance from the featured artist. Cleared the splits. Super transparent. They were getting a credit on a project I was putting out. Right before the project came out, their team, a new team at the time, flagged it and demanded a contract. They weren’t privy to the conversations the artist and I had previously. When I filled them in, they were still like, “That was before we entered the picture, so if you want to use this record, you need to do what we say.” So I drafted a contract. This is before ChatGPT, so I needed to go to a real lawyer and make an official document, which cost me 1000s of dollars. The whole time, the artist’s telling me, “It’s fine, I don’t need to sign this, you're good.” I sent them this agreement, and they never got the contract to him. It became this big runaround. I ended up putting the song out anyway, but that prevented me from actually licensing the record, really pitching it, so I basically paid all this money for a deep cut that did nothing for me, even after doing everything the team asked of me. This industry is really petty. I want to see more transparency, more artist compensation. A music union that could offer the equivalent of HR, but it's on the artists’ side. Mental health, healthcare benefits that come with signing these contracts. Like, how can yall give a 25-year-old artist a million dollar advance and not get a n**** a membership at BetterHelp? They need someone to talk to and not have it be charged against their budget. It should be an amenity of signing that’s in everyone’s interest.
Mad Keys: I want the industry to change everything. [Laughs] I want it to have benefits! If you’re working as an artist, you should have healthcare benefits! For real. In all seriousness, the most proactive way to look at it is to ask, “What can we change?” In this era of the internet and community, I think we have so much more leverage. We’re our own industries now. If we continue to create for the people who support us, and create spaces for them that are safe and welcoming, we can worry about the industry less. We can create our own definition. Our own little ecosystem.
Heno. & Mad Keys get paid the moment you buy their music on Catalog.
